All Clear - A Firefighter Health & Wellness Podcast
All Clear is a podcast that looks at the perils of modern firefighters, especially the physical and mental strains we face. Our goal is to help firefighters ignite The Fire Within and to build the best version of themselves as firefighters. Our conversations are real, sometimes raw but always honest. All Clear is presented by the NC Firefighter Cancer Alliance & First Responders Peer-Support Network.
All Clear - A Firefighter Health & Wellness Podcast
Strength In Service: Alec Wons On Firefighters & Health
What happens when a promising soccer career suddenly ends due to an unforeseen injury? Join us as Alec Wands, a podcaster with a remarkable journey, shares how he turned such a setback into a mission to aid others. From developing a mental health program for student-athletes to advancing medical care for first responders through his work at Ready Rebound, Alec's story is one of resilience and innovation. Listen as he discusses the invaluable lessons learned from interviewing fire and police chiefs and emphasizes the importance of cherishing relationships and wisdom gained from seasoned professionals in public safety.
Mental fitness is not just for athletes; it’s crucial for first responders too. Alec and I explore the parallels between the stressors faced in sports and public safety, sharing personal stories about how physical exercise and other activities can be vital outlets. We confront the critical issues of mental health in the fire service, highlighting the dangers of ignoring subtle changes in behavior and the high rates of cancer, heart disease, and suicides. This episode is a call to action for recognizing distress signals in colleagues, breaking the stigma around vulnerability, and advocating for proactive mental health routines.
The well-being of our firefighters is paramount, and investing in their health and wellness is essential. Alec and I delve into the physical and mental toll of staffing shortages, the necessity of quick medical interventions, and the alarming rates of cancer among retirees. We discuss how comprehensive health check-ups and predictive diagnostics can save lives, while also emphasizing the cultural shift needed to encourage seeking medical help. Ending on a lighter note, we share a joke about fake spaghetti, reflecting on the power of humor, and remind listeners to ignite their inner fire and take care of one another. Don't miss Alec's heartfelt gratitude and our final sign-off encouraging ongoing support and awareness.
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this is all clear firefighter wellness where we help you light your fire. I'm travis. Thank you for being with us today. On all clear, I I've got Alec Wands with me today, a very interesting young man. Alec is a podcaster as well. I'm going to let him do what podcasters do best, and that's talk. Tell us about yourself, alec, tell us what's going on, and thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much for having me on Travis. I'm excited to be able to be here today and I have an interesting background. So I don't come from a background in public safety. I come from a background actually in sport, so grew up playing for one of the top soccer academies in the country in Kansas City and unfortunately didn't get a professional contract.
Speaker 2:So I came up to Marquette University to play Division I college soccer, ended up having a career-ending injury there sophomore year, which kind of kick-started me on the path to looking at what is life like after sport, where my senior year I actually helped develop a mental health program for college student athletes, Since at that time there was a lot of athletes who were committing suicide, which we also see a parallel in public safety. So, trying to be able to make an impact there, built out a pilot program with the present university and didn't end up taking off. There was a lot of other criteria I'd overlooked, so we wanted to make sure if we're going to do it, we're going to do it right. But a great learning experience nonetheless. And after graduating there I got my degree in exercise physiology. So I was a strength and conditioning coach at Exos and was working with NFL athletes as well as guys in NFL Combine, so a great experience there and it's always funny a life path you don't know where it's going to take you and you realize that you really don't have control over a lot.
Speaker 2:But a mentor who I met in college actually ended up becoming CEO of Ready Rebound, the current company I'm at, and brought me on where we help expedite the care of first responders. So almost like how do you see the right doctor in less time than Amazon Prime. We expanded our offering to be able to help cover cardiology, oncology, as well as some functional movement, screen nutrition exercise plans. So very blessed to be here and then, beginning this year, I wanted to be able to make a podcast, be able to give first responders and their departments a voice, especially after we saw what happened four years ago in Minneapolis, as well as just public safety in general. Recruit classes are smaller than they've ever been, so trying to be able to spread the word of how fulfilling a career in public safety can be and talk with chiefs about anything from life, leadership, recruitment, retention, you can talk about relationships, so it's fun to be able to talk about not only public safety but just the wisdom that these chiefs have gained, so I really appreciate you having me on here today.
Speaker 1:No, worries, when I was first learning about you, it's like this guy's interesting. He's got a lot going on. So I figured, particularly with the fact that you've talked with how many chiefs you said what? At least 17 or plus by now, and you've got a lot more lined up. So where are some of the chiefs from that you've had a chance to talk with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right now I've had 17 episodes published, but I record about two to three a week because chiefs always have to reschedule for different stuff that comes up, so I always have a bank one in the bank for the week coming up and now booked out through early 2025, which is exciting. But had chief Baker on from Austin fire department. I've had a police chief, paco Balderrama on um from Austin Fire Department. I've had Police Chief Paco Balderrama on in California, just have John Butler on from the IFC coming up in two weeks here, police Chief Eddie Garcia in Texas Chief Rubin. So I've had some legends on. I was actually on with Deputy Commissioner Kaz Daughtry and Chief of Patrol John Schell from NYPD last week, which is crazy to hear what they go through in the largest law enforcement agency in the United States. So I've learned a lot from some very experienced individuals.
Speaker 1:So when I listen to you talk about your background, it sounds a lot like you have focused on development. That seems like something that's like a common thread through your life, through you playing sports and talking about injury prevention and getting so you're trying to make things better, make people better, and that's exactly what we do here at our podcast is try to build a better firefighter by igniting that fire within. But of all these folks you've talked to, why don't you share with us some of the most important I'm not going to say lessons, but most important facts, or even lessons that you've taken away from what you've learned so far?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So at the end of each podcast I ask a question was if you would go back to the beginning of your career in public safety. What is one thing you wish you would have known then that you know now, later on in your career? And there's some advice about investing early when it comes to finances, but a lot of it is a lot of the chiefs said that they didn't know that they wanted to be a chief. They just played it by ear. They would have been fine being a captain and getting to stay out in the field, maybe doing more paperwork than they would have thought.
Speaker 2:But it's to enjoy the journey right, not just try and get to the destination and finding out that the journey all along is the destination.
Speaker 2:To be able to prioritize relationships with your family, because it's really easy to get caught up in the fire service other hobbies you have going on.
Speaker 2:I've learned some great stuff about relationships as well. My parents are divorced when I was younger and I don't want that for myself in the future. So I appreciate some of these chiefs sharing some of their difficulties that they experienced in relationships that I can learn from, and I think one of the amazing things about this is the chiefs you have on the podcast is a chief in Florida could listen to one in Washington and it's just a one-sided conversation that you could put on your car, and a lot of these chiefs are at the top here where they have to branch out to find other people to empathize with, since you can't always do that within your department, since you're at the top of the ladder then. So it's almost developing this connected network where public safety professionals can connect and learn from each other, and it's been a really great thing to see chiefs connecting who had never met before. So I just like being able to connect people who are making a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a very important thing that you mentioned that when we have a role of supervisory, a supervisory role or a leadership role in an organization whether you're a company officer, chief officer, all the way to the chief we all have a certain level that we can communicate with, because you never want to talk bad about someone that's of your level to anyone below you, because that's very destructive and the service that you're providing is very important because a lot of these guys they deal with a lot of stress, they have a lot on them and they need to vent it and they need to have other people they can talk to. But you mentioned, like, the fact of marriage and how you've learned that they face challenges and things like that. Have you in your experience, do you think that firefighters, first responders in general, tend to be very, or can be very, self-destructive when it comes to how they deal with, say, mental stress, how they deal with PTSD, how they just deal with the ugly stuff we see? Do you think they become self-destructive when they deal with this sometimes?
Speaker 2:I think it's a possibility. So we've seen a lot of parallels between sports and first responders, as well as what happens with some of the horrific events that are seen on the job in different ways that people cope. Personally, I cope with exercise and a lot of mental stress that I dealt with After graduating college. I put on 35 pounds of all muscle. Right, it was just. I wasn't eating a lot, I was working out a ton, and that's how I let my stress go.
Speaker 2:Certain firefighters like to go out on ATVs and they'll get a crash. That's how we see injuries. Sometimes is people just blowing off steam off duty. Other times we see when someone's injured, for example, they choose to cope with different substances, like alcohol sometimes. And that's not only doesn't affect your mental health, your physical health, your emotional health, it's. There's this huge umbrella of wellness with all these components underneath it, and you can always see if someone breaks their arm, but you can never tell what's going on in someone's mind all the time.
Speaker 2:We call it checkup for the neck up. It's. How are you always checking on your buddies? Because, let's face it, just being honest, in public safety and the fire service, law enforcement, the three top killers right now are cancer, heart disease and suicides. So it's, how are we helping address that? Because the suicide one's hard. You can't always see what's going on in someone. It's just making people be more aware of. Is your buddy acting different? Should you check up on him? He's? The last thing you want is to say I saw something off, but I never said anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly Craig Stolowee, a friend of mine who's in Colorado. We've had him on the podcast before. He's another podcaster. He uses the word he doesn't like to use the word mental health. He uses the term mental fitness and how when we deal with things we have just, you're not going to go do your jar pack, You're not going to go do your physical training, but you're going to without having some type of workout routine in front of you and it's the same.
Speaker 1:You have to get your mind, you have to start focusing on how to mitigate these things in your mind, even before you see the bad stuff. And that's a problem. I think that is very real in the fire service right now and a lot of people don't take it serious because, hey, I'm not going to say anything because I'm a dude, I'm a man, I'm not going to say that, I can't let anybody see me weak, and that can be very destructive, as we were talking about. But yeah, no, that's one of the big things. And you also mentioned the fact that a lot of times when you talk with people, you don't know what's going on and you don't want to be the one that says I should have said something. What would you say from your experience, both professionally working for the organization you do and then also working with firefighters and things like that that you've interviewed what would you say are some of the things that we can do to maybe identify a firefighter that might be struggling or first responder that might be having some issues?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just speaking from personal experience. This does not mean providing advice to anybody when I say this, as I'm not like licensed in this area, but I'll just share from personal experience.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, just paying attention to smaller things that people do, do they not come out as much? Do they feel a little more depressed? Are they talking more about problems? Do they not seem happy doing the things that they used to do and just simply checking in on them and can just be asking how they're doing? And, based on the question you ask someone, the answer is you're going to get. So don't just ask someone how you're doing. Everyone always says good, hey man, how have you been feeling lately? So sometimes just changing a couple words in a question, you're going to get a completely different answer and I honestly say every change starts with you.
Speaker 2:So if you're hoping that someone opens up, you should probably be sharing something vulnerable about yourself to create that safe space. What's going on? I'm a big fan of Brene Brown and one of the things she talks about. The word is vulnerability and everyone thinks it's oh, it's this scary word Like I'm going to be vulnerable. That's thinks it's ooh, it's this scary word like I'm going to be vulnerable. It's so exposing weak in a way. But I challenge anyone listening here to think of a situation in your life where you had to be vulnerable but, not courageous at the same time.
Speaker 2:Being vulnerable takes courage, yes. So when you show someone that it's okay, that if you can be courageous and maybe share something about you that others might not know and can be maybe perceived initially as whoa I didn't know that was going on it's really funny the response you're going to get, because people are going to be drawn to you and then open up themselves. So I always like to say be the change that you want to see, and sometimes you have to be the one to take that first step.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is very true and that vulnerability is something that I think is a cultural thing, not just among men, but especially among firefighters. We're not going to tell anybody how we really feel. I'm tough, I can do what I have to. But I was talking to a friend of mine who is with Charlotte here not too far from us, and he was making the comment that the guys that he trains with that are not necessarily with Charlotte. He's got another group that he does some I think it's almost like fools training with and they they always say I love you before they leave. And the first time I heard that I was like hey man, that's weird. But then the after he explained it and then he looked at me and said when was the last time you told a full grown man other than your dad that you love him? I was like there there have been a few that are not family, that have helped me through hard times.
Speaker 1:So being able to express those types of things are very important, and I know that seems touchy feely. Somebody's probably getting ready to try to flip the knob off on the podcast. No, hang tight, it gets better, I promise. But those are all things that I think that we have to have cultural change with in the fire service. And that's one thing that I think that we have to have cultural change with in the fire service, and that's one thing that I think we really do struggle with a lot and maybe you've noticed that from talking to chiefs, because these tend to be the older guys that have been around longer. Do you think they struggle with the changes that we see, such as that being vulnerable and open, or do you think they're pretty easy to go with it?
Speaker 2:I think from what I've seen because I'm 25 years old for those of you who don't know this in here I think from what I've seen from some of the older generation, is that there is still a little bit of that not as much wanting to be able to share what's going on as might be seen as a weakness. Personally, being part of the younger generation, it's cool to see that more people are opening up and I know we just say how it is here. Women tend to do a better job at talking to each other about their feelings and stuff like that, and I saw a study recently that there could be a reason why they might have an average lifespan that's longer than males. When you look at the documentary Blue Zones, when they're talking about where do the most centenarians live? It's the diet, the exercise, but the thing they put at the top was the social relationships you have with others and men. Let's be fair. You could go out golfing with someone, spend a whole day with them and you ask how's life? You don't really get too deep. Girls are going to ask each other anything, and I had someone.
Speaker 2:I read this the other day and it was like when is the one time that normally men receive flowers in their lives and it's at their funeral. It's almost like you said here with the last time you said you love you to a grown man. You never know when the last time you're going to see someone. They could go out on a call and you could never see them again. So, no matter how bad the fight, the disagreement that you're in, it is so not worth leaving like that, because you would not be able to forgive yourself if they went out on a run or heck, if they even went home for the night and didn't wake up the next day sleeping. You would not let yourself go for experiencing something like that. So I always like to treat every time like it's the last that you see someone, because you don't know what's going to happen when you guys leave from what you're doing together. Yep.
Speaker 1:That is very true. That is a good point. We've talked about the mental health, the emotional health part of being a first responder, but let's hit the turn signal and make a hard right-hand turn here. Let's talk about the physical stuff that's going on with firefighters right now. It seems like that's where the company and the organization you're working for now is leaning more toward getting expedient service for first responders, whether it be mental health.
Speaker 1:Get them to an oncologist, get them to a cardiologist. Why do you think that is an important thing for us to look at from a leadership perspective and also just in general, from the fire service? Because I'll be the first to admit, I am not the most active person at going to the doctor. I need to be near dead before I go, or at least that's how I used to be. I'm getting a little better, but how do you think what you guys are doing in trying to make those connections patient to doctor? Why do you think that's an important thing that we need to be looking at as well? Wow, do you have a couple hours? I can give you a few minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you look at the largest part of a department's budget, it is their largest asset. It's the personnel, it's the people. I know trucks are getting more expensive it's crazy they're getting upwards of 2 million now but the biggest asset your department has is the people. So how am I investing in people? And a lot of the pieces of that is if they're injured, they can't work, which then affects their physical health, their mental health, if they are away from that locker room type feel oh man, I don't even.
Speaker 2:There's so many areas to be able to fit on here for it. And then, for example, like a staffing shortage is at an all-time high across the country. So there's a vicious cycle between smaller academy classes, a lot more firefighters doing more overtime, which is putting a financial strain on the department, on the firefighters' physical health we're seeing more injuries, physically, mentally, and there's just not as many resources in the fire service. Funding has gone down ever since 2009 across the country and it's really hard to be innovative and forward thinking when you're just trying to be able to keep the current members that you have and try and keep your head above water, and a big piece of that is first responders. Firefighters yourselves you're tactical athletes. The work you do is physically demanding I did the firefighter for a day for a fall and sweat out seven pounds. You're chopping wood, pulling ladders, pulling hose and even if your buddy goes down in a fire, you have to be able to pull them out. Patients are only getting heavier. So now it's more important than ever that you need to be able to be at your top physical condition, at least be physically fit, not just, obviously, for yourself and your health, but for those other out there who you're serving and I think it's humans in general have this behavior.
Speaker 2:I do feel we're a very flawed species. We're always very reactive instead of proactive when it comes to a lot of things, and it's hard to see sometimes that someone has to wait for a heart attack to happen to start eating cleaner and exercising. So it's, how can we look at the patterns that society has and look to be able to break those, almost like learning the lesson without having to bear the scar there. So how do we help get members in within a day to see an orthopedic specialist if they tear the rotator cuff? Get them an MRI in a day. Get them a surgery within a week, because that helps the department, it helps the individual, it helps finances, it helps everybody involved. I just believe it's the right thing to do for the right people.
Speaker 2:First responders are out there 24-7, 365. So we do the exact same. We realize that they have to support their families too. If they're not working, then their family is not maybe bringing the income that they want, or they can't work their second jobs. So it's not just getting them back to work, it's getting them back to work. It's getting them back to their lives and we even help do the same service for their kids. Retirees, administrative staff, everyone involved in the department. Plenty of firefighters' kids get hurt in a soccer game on a Saturday of their knee, or retirees slips on the ice in the winter and you don't want to just get a firefighter to retirement.
Speaker 1:You want them to live a healthy retirement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that has impacted me greatly when you start talking about that retirement we did a kind of an informal survey just in the department I work for and we've got at the time we were right about a little less than 300 members and we have a spaghetti dinner once a year for the retirees and everybody gets to see their old friends and we put this survey out in front of them and we ask okay, how many of you guys have had a cancer diagnosis since retirement, not while you were on shift, but since retirement? Do you know what the percentage was that we had, that had a active cancer diagnosis or have just came off of one? I'm scared to hear the number 33%, one third of our retirees. And we're finding that retirees and I'm just speaking for cancer and I know there's other factors, but most of them are being diagnosed within two to three years of retirement. Trust me, when I retire I want to have plenty of time with my wife with, hopefully, grandkids at the point, but in traveling there's.
Speaker 1:I want to have plenty of time with my wife with, hopefully, grandkids at the point but you know, and traveling there's things I want to do, yeah, but if I don't take care of myself now and I don't get the services I need now from doctors and follow-up, it doesn't go well.
Speaker 1:And one of the partners that we work with here through our nonprofit is some guys from a company called SelectWell. They are some of the absolute best in the industry when it comes to doing the diagnostic lab work, the blood work, and they are working very hard at trying to be predictive for things such as cardiac and thyroid. And at our last physical that we had professionally here in Concord, we had full body ultrasounds, we did the spirometry, we were on the bikes, they did full EKGs on us and they found several guys that had issues that needed to follow up on it. We had one firefighter had their thyroid removed because they found a lump and it was precancerous and they were able to get out. In front of that, yes, we tend to be scared to say I love you and we tend to be scared to go to the doctor. Those are two things that I think we need to change in the fire service and when we see organizations like yours that push toward that, it's a good thing. It really is a good thing.
Speaker 2:And it's not because people don't want to go, I think it's afraid of because of what you might find. I was talking with the CEO of United Diagnostic Services, ray Lincoln, last week and we were at a conference together and he just does free screenings there for chiefs who are there. And last year there was a survivor who said when I was here a year ago when Ray tested me, I felt fine, didn't feel anything. He tested me and it came back that I had cancer. I would never have known. If I would not have known, I would have died, and it's just something right there like that's. You don't always feel it. That's why it's important to get checked for it, because I'm pretty sure a lot of people want to live to see their grandkids or see their spouse or go travel, and it's just one of those things you're not going to know unless you test. So we'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, and it's really awesome to see a young person like you with as much insight as you have and how much you've obviously learned just by talking to other people, and that's why it's important that messages go out about leadership. It's not just how do you write up your paperwork better when it's disciplinary. It's not just hey, we need to learn how to throw a ladder better. We need to learn a better way to stack hoes. It has nothing to do with that. Sometimes it's got to be interpersonal skills. It's how you deal with people and the mission you are doing. Alec is absolutely one of the most important out there and I encourage you to keep doing what you're doing and I look forward to listening to a few more of your episodes and seeing where you go. But if folks want to get up with you, a very intelligent young man, where can they find you at? What's the best ways to get ahold of you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, LinkedIn is the best. I'm very responsive on there. It's just my name is Alec A-L-E-C. Last name's Wands W-O-N-S. I like the word snow spelled backwards. My email is awands at readyreboundcom. Ready like you're ready to go and then rebound like in basketball. So awands at readyReboundcom. And those are two easy ways to reach out to me and just leaving with kind of golden nugget it was.
Speaker 2:Maybe this is common knowledge to everyone else, but when I was talking with a lot of the chiefs about leadership, it's always how is the chief serving his firefighters and his command staff? So how do his firefighters be able to serve the community properly? It's almost like the book Leaders Eat Last is they realize that the community is the top of the pyramid. And when you build those community engagement efforts, when you're out there on the good times just as well, the bad people feel more comfortable with you there and are more likely to be able to like.
Speaker 2:Your job is prevention. These are the best fires. That never happened in the first place. So how can you get people to be able to get a fire blanker, know how to use a fire extinguisher, so maybe you don't have to report to a call or it be as severe, or, on the law enforcement side, someone to be able to phone in something that looks suspicious. So it's how do you help serve the community, how do you help serve those around you, and that's one of the biggest things I've picked up from leaders in my nuggets there. But yeah, LinkedIn is probably the easiest way and I appreciate you having me on here today. I love what you're doing to help support the mission of cancer awareness. I think it's definitely needed, as we're only seeing more first responders get cancer and not that many are even getting tested right now. So I'm hoping that this at least inspires someone to at least go take a look. Yep.
Speaker 1:No doubt, no doubt. But I do have a golden nugget that I picked up, that I will I would like to share with you today, please. I have a question for you Do you know what you call fake spaghetti?
Speaker 2:I actually haven't heard this, I don't know. Impasta Aye, all right See.
Speaker 1:I warned you about the bad jokes and everything is so serious in this world and people often wonder why do you tell a terrible joke? Because the world stinks sometimes and we just have to laugh about it and I appreciate you taking time to give us some wisdom today, at a young age, and look forward to talking to you again before too long.
Speaker 2:Sounds good. I appreciate you and what you do, all right.
Speaker 1:Thank you and Alec, thank you for being with us and, as we always sign off here on our podcast, Ignite your Fire Within. You have been listening to All Clear Firefighter Wellness. All Clear is presented by the North Carolina Firefighter Cancer Alliance. You can find out more about us at allclearpodcastcom. Leave us a message. We'd love to hear from you. If you like what you hear, tell someone. All opinions expressed on the podcast do not always reflect the opinions of the podcast. As always, light your fire within.
